1 00:00:04,610 --> 00:00:02,450 come like a curse or a hex this is life 2 00:00:06,260 --> 00:00:04,620 wheelbarrow full of regret yeah I do 3 00:00:07,639 --> 00:00:06,270 this for my family if you mess up like 4 00:00:11,120 --> 00:00:07,649 that you will make me give you a 5 00:00:13,100 --> 00:00:11,130 permanent mess and your dad this is not 6 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:13,110 for the block this is what my people 7 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:17,970 trying to think out the box get out the 8 00:00:45,020 --> 00:00:42,710 [Music] 9 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:45,030 good evening ladies and gentlemen thank 10 00:00:49,189 --> 00:00:47,610 you very much for your patience let me 11 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:49,199 turn that just down just a little bit's 12 00:00:54,979 --> 00:00:52,250 welcome to the tenth floor episode 63 13 00:00:56,750 --> 00:00:54,989 grab your glasses of scotch and put your 14 00:00:58,640 --> 00:00:56,760 chair up to the fire because we're gonna 15 00:01:03,200 --> 00:00:58,650 learn some cool [\h__\h] tonight courtesy of 16 00:01:05,499 --> 00:01:03,210 a returning guest mr. Aaron cheek he is 17 00:01:08,630 --> 00:01:05,509 the world's foremost authority on 18 00:01:12,950 --> 00:01:08,640 esoteric symbolism alchemy Hermeticism 19 00:01:14,779 --> 00:01:12,960 he has a PhD in this think about that 20 00:01:17,180 --> 00:01:14,789 for a second who else do you know has a 21 00:01:20,749 --> 00:01:17,190 doctorate in esoteric symbolism 22 00:01:22,820 --> 00:01:20,759 absolutely nobody else this awesome 23 00:01:25,100 --> 00:01:22,830 guaranteed and he's joining us on a 24 00:01:27,050 --> 00:01:25,110 Saturday morning all the way from New 25 00:01:32,540 --> 00:01:27,060 Zealand let me just switch over to the 26 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:32,550 webcam you ladies and gents doing today 27 00:01:37,399 --> 00:01:34,410 I know that my hair is absolutely 28 00:01:40,219 --> 00:01:37,409 horrible please forgive me on this one I 29 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:40,229 don't wear what I did with my hat so for 30 00:01:42,499 --> 00:01:41,250 all of you who think that it was 31 00:01:47,060 --> 00:01:42,509 permanently attached to my head 32 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:47,070 apparently it was not now I know that 33 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:50,090 this is supposed to be a masterclass and 34 00:01:56,749 --> 00:01:52,290 I have not actually a chance to do a 35 00:01:58,219 --> 00:01:56,759 mailbag for the program in quite some 36 00:02:00,590 --> 00:01:58,229 time and unfortunately you're gonna have 37 00:02:05,179 --> 00:02:00,600 to wait a while longer to be able to do 38 00:02:06,590 --> 00:02:05,189 that because well we've been well it's 39 00:02:10,460 --> 00:02:06,600 been a little bit busy around the zuker 40 00:02:12,740 --> 00:02:10,470 household with let's see tyson as you 41 00:02:14,300 --> 00:02:12,750 all know and he was right down there in 42 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:14,310 his dog bed I have to go to the vet 43 00:02:21,020 --> 00:02:19,370 today and unfortunately for him the 44 00:02:26,780 --> 00:02:21,030 tranquilizers that they were going to be 45 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:26,790 using do not actually work so he still 46 00:02:29,509 --> 00:02:28,410 couldn't get get the work done he 47 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:29,519 couldn't get his nails trimmed I know 48 00:02:35,690 --> 00:02:30,930 all this fur just to get his nails 49 00:02:37,940 --> 00:02:35,700 trimmed so he is still waiting to have 50 00:02:39,199 --> 00:02:37,950 that done and that set me back a little 51 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:39,209 bit in addition to some technical 52 00:02:42,319 --> 00:02:41,370 difficulties with restream we're still 53 00:02:45,460 --> 00:02:42,329 learning how to be able to do that 54 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:45,470 although it's getting to the point where 55 00:02:51,229 --> 00:02:48,810 you know we're getting on getting on as 56 00:02:53,930 --> 00:02:51,239 it were one thing I do want to be able 57 00:02:55,190 --> 00:02:53,940 to thank is our patrons who pretty well 58 00:02:57,770 --> 00:02:55,200 ensure that this show actually does 59 00:02:59,119 --> 00:02:57,780 happen and hopefully we can get to that 60 00:03:01,820 --> 00:02:59,129 seven hundred and fifty dollar a month 61 00:03:04,250 --> 00:03:01,830 levels so that we can actually so I can 62 00:03:06,890 --> 00:03:04,260 maybe get some in studio help that would 63 00:03:08,690 --> 00:03:06,900 be great as you guys know we were 64 00:03:10,580 --> 00:03:08,700 independent media we do what we can and 65 00:03:14,150 --> 00:03:10,590 we try and keep it up at as high level 66 00:03:17,569 --> 00:03:14,160 as humanly possible for its for its 67 00:03:18,979 --> 00:03:17,579 quality so you know our patrons they 68 00:03:20,180 --> 00:03:18,989 ensure that the bills get paid they 69 00:03:22,699 --> 00:03:20,190 ensure that we have internet to 70 00:03:26,180 --> 00:03:22,709 broadcast on you know web servers to 71 00:03:28,220 --> 00:03:26,190 able to run our website on which is 72 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:28,230 currently going through a redesign in 73 00:03:33,050 --> 00:03:30,530 addition to our email servers any 74 00:03:35,199 --> 00:03:33,060 expenses that happen with the show if we 75 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:35,209 need to be able to send out you know 76 00:03:42,830 --> 00:03:39,810 contest winnings for instance that's all 77 00:03:44,839 --> 00:03:42,840 done by our patrons and to our patrons 78 00:03:47,990 --> 00:03:44,849 specifically our Luster's masters and 79 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:48,000 our masters - Pat from Brooklyn to 80 00:03:53,090 --> 00:03:50,370 Jackie from across the pond to her 81 00:03:54,890 --> 00:03:53,100 master's Kevin father Ronnie Schultz and 82 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:54,900 Tony Martinez Frederick Johnson Jared 83 00:04:01,400 --> 00:03:57,930 Thompson mrs. Fox roses Wayne Joshua 84 00:04:03,020 --> 00:04:01,410 Matic Ellen mccurdy as well as Mark 85 00:04:05,150 --> 00:04:03,030 Catalano and to the rest of her patrons 86 00:04:07,550 --> 00:04:05,160 hobby from a dental or calm 87 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:07,560 Matthew Toth Michael Eckhoff Dean John 88 00:04:11,839 --> 00:04:09,450 Kenward Anthony Derry Atlanta Koosh 89 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:11,849 Vinnie's from magical Egypt and sentient 90 00:04:15,710 --> 00:04:14,010 that is the only commercial effort 91 00:04:18,620 --> 00:04:15,720 you'll ever hear on the show now because 92 00:04:21,259 --> 00:04:18,630 we are corporate corporate sponsor free 93 00:04:23,629 --> 00:04:21,269 and 100% well kind of this is I guess 94 00:04:24,860 --> 00:04:23,639 it's kind of a commercial but you know 95 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:24,870 if you like to show you like the content 96 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:26,849 go to patreon.com forward slash den of 97 00:04:33,290 --> 00:04:29,970 lore and support the show especially 98 00:04:34,730 --> 00:04:33,300 since the later half of this of this 99 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:34,740 particular broadcast will only be 100 00:04:40,129 --> 00:04:37,289 available to the masters of our patrons 101 00:04:42,050 --> 00:04:40,139 or a patreon page but you know we like 102 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:42,060 to be able to give a little taste a 103 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:44,130 tantalizing taste of what we have in 104 00:04:47,810 --> 00:04:45,930 store for all of you and to be able to 105 00:04:51,950 --> 00:04:47,820 introduce the guests that we have on and 106 00:04:53,029 --> 00:04:51,960 this is a master to be sure one of the 107 00:04:54,980 --> 00:04:53,039 best and probably one of the most 108 00:04:58,970 --> 00:04:54,990 interesting guests we've had on at any 109 00:05:01,100 --> 00:04:58,980 point now Aaron how are you doing 110 00:05:03,430 --> 00:05:01,110 I'm doing good I'm feeling very 111 00:05:07,940 --> 00:05:03,440 flattered right now it's high praise 112 00:05:09,170 --> 00:05:07,950 well considering that I was we're a 113 00:05:11,210 --> 00:05:09,180 little bit later starting that I 114 00:05:13,250 --> 00:05:11,220 actually expected you know a little 115 00:05:16,250 --> 00:05:13,260 flatter never hurts at the same time I 116 00:05:18,050 --> 00:05:16,260 actually believe what I say so if it's 117 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:18,060 flattering you know it's good it means 118 00:05:21,860 --> 00:05:18,930 you've got a good head on your shoulders 119 00:05:26,780 --> 00:05:21,870 and it's appreciated as well for your 120 00:05:30,650 --> 00:05:26,790 patients now I'm going to just quickly 121 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:30,660 read through your bio here and I do need 122 00:05:35,390 --> 00:05:33,570 to be able to make sure that I also give 123 00:05:37,900 --> 00:05:35,400 me a second here apparently I've got a 124 00:05:41,470 --> 00:05:39,610 the other computer screen apparently 125 00:05:45,410 --> 00:05:41,480 I've got a technical difficulty that 126 00:05:51,420 --> 00:05:49,460 coming oh that videos playing that's why 127 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:51,430 I was wondering why that sound was 128 00:05:55,020 --> 00:05:53,530 coming from how well first of all how 129 00:05:57,960 --> 00:05:55,030 are you doing well I'm fixing this up 130 00:06:00,480 --> 00:05:57,970 I'm doing good I've got a few coffees in 131 00:06:03,870 --> 00:06:00,490 me this morning so sudden to feel almost 132 00:06:06,410 --> 00:06:03,880 human and yeah yes it's good to take a 133 00:06:09,530 --> 00:06:06,420 break I've been pretty snowed with 134 00:06:13,260 --> 00:06:09,540 publication and kind of book production 135 00:06:14,730 --> 00:06:13,270 projects so it's nice to kind of chill 136 00:06:16,740 --> 00:06:14,740 out on a Sunday morning I decided 137 00:06:19,290 --> 00:06:16,750 minutes I'm kind of technically coming 138 00:06:21,810 --> 00:06:19,300 to you from the future so Sunday morning 139 00:06:24,630 --> 00:06:21,820 here but yeah it's nice to chill out on 140 00:06:27,450 --> 00:06:24,640 a Saturday morning rather than just my 141 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:27,460 usual routine which is immersing myself 142 00:06:34,650 --> 00:06:32,890 in coffee and more work but yeah short 143 00:06:37,350 --> 00:06:34,660 short answer that I'm doing well now 144 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:37,360 speaking of your work again I bet your 145 00:06:40,650 --> 00:06:39,250 bio up here and I've got the the volume 146 00:06:44,010 --> 00:06:40,660 turned down on the other monitor here so 147 00:06:46,380 --> 00:06:44,020 I can I can take care of this mmm dr. 148 00:06:48,660 --> 00:06:46,390 Aaron cheek PhD considered the world's 149 00:06:50,820 --> 00:06:48,670 top authority on esoteric symbolism and 150 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:50,830 alchemical and hermetic knowledge Aaron 151 00:06:54,950 --> 00:06:52,930 chica is a scholar of comparative 152 00:06:57,210 --> 00:06:54,960 religion philosophy and esotericism a 153 00:06:59,760 --> 00:06:57,220 former president of the International 154 00:07:02,010 --> 00:06:59,770 John Webster Society between 2013 and 155 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:02,020 2015 he received his doctorate in 156 00:07:06,270 --> 00:07:03,730 religious studies from the University of 157 00:07:08,670 --> 00:07:06,280 Queensland in 2011 for his work on 158 00:07:11,340 --> 00:07:08,680 French hermetic philosopher Rene Shuang 159 00:07:13,220 --> 00:07:11,350 delegates outside of the Academy aaron 160 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:13,230 has been trained in the preparation of 161 00:07:20,730 --> 00:07:17,290 spirit elixirs which again will be able 162 00:07:24,150 --> 00:07:20,740 to go into quickly again and and is a 163 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:24,160 protect practitioner within the and I 164 00:07:29,550 --> 00:07:26,410 need again probably take a shot with 165 00:07:35,070 --> 00:07:29,560 that one you and you yeah and I can't 166 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:35,080 you lineages of Vajrayana bod Rihanna 167 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:39,130 Buddhism we actually a drinking game on 168 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:41,410 the show now whenever i arin whenever 169 00:07:44,310 --> 00:07:42,970 whatever i butcher a name or 170 00:07:46,940 --> 00:07:44,320 pronunciation of one takes a shot 171 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:46,950 because it happens a lot more often and 172 00:07:52,860 --> 00:07:49,210 so half the half of the audience right 173 00:07:53,940 --> 00:07:52,870 now is imbuing and now also the 174 00:07:55,470 --> 00:07:53,950 interesting part is and i know that you 175 00:07:57,450 --> 00:07:55,480 mentioned book production the founding 176 00:07:58,360 --> 00:07:57,460 you are the founding director of rabito 177 00:08:00,160 --> 00:07:58,370 press 178 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:00,170 which is the principal publications 179 00:08:04,690 --> 00:08:02,690 including alchemical traditions from 180 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:04,700 antiquity to the avant-garde which was 181 00:08:11,230 --> 00:08:08,570 published in 2013 Daphne a journey and 182 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:11,240 Nocturne from 2015 and the leaf of 183 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:13,930 immortality which was just released in 184 00:08:20,770 --> 00:08:18,290 2017 and yeah you currently in the 185 00:08:22,990 --> 00:08:20,780 rugged west coast of New Zealand where 186 00:08:27,220 --> 00:08:23,000 you maintain an active interest in tea 187 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:27,230 wine poetry typography alchemy as well 188 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:30,410 as I'm not mistaken pipe smoking but 189 00:08:38,620 --> 00:08:34,130 tobacco or not yeah that's up to of 190 00:08:41,680 --> 00:08:38,630 course of course no judgement here yeah 191 00:08:45,610 --> 00:08:41,690 I really should write a more accessible 192 00:08:48,700 --> 00:08:45,620 biography all right well one with the 193 00:08:51,250 --> 00:08:48,710 easy to pronounce words but yeah you 194 00:08:56,980 --> 00:08:51,260 know that's a little bit of a view of 195 00:08:59,170 --> 00:08:56,990 what I do now if you can give for our 196 00:09:02,230 --> 00:08:59,180 you know for those who may not be 197 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:02,240 patrons and who may not have heard of 198 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:04,850 you specifically and may have just heard 199 00:09:08,620 --> 00:09:07,610 the words alchemy or hermeticism you 200 00:09:10,810 --> 00:09:08,630 know let's start going through an 201 00:09:14,110 --> 00:09:10,820 explanation exactly what these subjects 202 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:14,120 are because there there may be some how 203 00:09:19,510 --> 00:09:16,370 should we put it misconceptions with 204 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:19,520 regards to these terms and and what lies 205 00:09:27,370 --> 00:09:22,850 behind them like for first and foremost 206 00:09:30,820 --> 00:09:27,380 at its core what is alchemy yeah that's 207 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:30,830 that's a it's a big question and it's 208 00:09:37,620 --> 00:09:34,610 always when I I kind of struggled to 209 00:09:41,370 --> 00:09:37,630 answer in a direct way 210 00:09:48,300 --> 00:09:44,280 and alchemy I like alchemy was it's 211 00:09:50,820 --> 00:09:48,310 ultimately it's part of at one of the 212 00:09:54,710 --> 00:09:50,830 hermetic Sciences that come down to us 213 00:09:59,940 --> 00:09:54,720 from antiquity from Greek Oh Egyptian 214 00:10:03,390 --> 00:09:59,950 world's and it you know it comes down to 215 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:03,400 in its original format it existed side 216 00:10:09,300 --> 00:10:05,290 by side with and was intertwined with 217 00:10:14,090 --> 00:10:09,310 things like you know ancient astrology 218 00:10:16,890 --> 00:10:14,100 and ancient magical practices like Co G 219 00:10:20,100 --> 00:10:16,900 so it was always bound up with these 220 00:10:22,620 --> 00:10:20,110 sister Sciences and but it ultimately 221 00:10:27,020 --> 00:10:22,630 comes down to its it's a hermetic 222 00:10:32,820 --> 00:10:27,030 science it's dealing with ultimately was 223 00:10:37,290 --> 00:10:32,830 the process of incarnation of spirits 224 00:10:39,690 --> 00:10:37,300 into matter and the reverse of that 225 00:10:41,490 --> 00:10:39,700 process do you know the the dis 226 00:10:44,990 --> 00:10:41,500 incarnation or the liberation of spirit 227 00:10:48,870 --> 00:10:45,000 from matter I mean that's one of the 228 00:10:54,300 --> 00:10:48,880 that's a definition that that operates 229 00:10:57,030 --> 00:10:54,310 both on a suppose a religious level as 230 00:11:00,290 --> 00:10:57,040 well as a practical laboratory level 231 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:00,300 because alchemy when most people hear 232 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:05,170 about alchemy I'll you know they're the 233 00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:06,730 kind of dominant image most people might 234 00:11:11,850 --> 00:11:10,000 have is you know gold making people 235 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:11,860 trying to create gold in the laboratory 236 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:17,890 and you know that process was always I 237 00:11:23,270 --> 00:11:20,770 mean they we can maybe get into some of 238 00:11:27,270 --> 00:11:23,280 the details of that but that process was 239 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:27,280 that once a real objective that was also 240 00:11:34,530 --> 00:11:30,490 symbolic so there's a saying in alchemy 241 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:34,540 that our gold is not ordinary gold so 242 00:11:39,330 --> 00:11:35,770 the goal that they're trying to create 243 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:39,340 is not necessarily a material substance 244 00:11:46,590 --> 00:11:42,850 it's and and so alchemy would often 245 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:46,600 distinguish between in the internal and 246 00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:49,530 external applications so a more 247 00:11:54,809 --> 00:11:53,200 psychological or spiritual dimension of 248 00:11:58,259 --> 00:11:54,819 alchemy and in a it 249 00:12:02,460 --> 00:11:58,269 leaving gold or perfection or 250 00:12:04,409 --> 00:12:02,470 immortality on that level versus more 251 00:12:08,039 --> 00:12:04,419 external or material application we're 252 00:12:11,509 --> 00:12:08,049 trying to attain perfection saying the 253 00:12:18,049 --> 00:12:11,519 mineral and metallic kingdoms in the 254 00:12:25,799 --> 00:12:18,059 domain of you know chemistry or physics 255 00:12:27,509 --> 00:12:25,809 and so forth so yeah so that I mean no 256 00:12:29,729 --> 00:12:27,519 is that a helpful starting point I mean 257 00:12:33,179 --> 00:12:29,739 we can make unpack some of these details 258 00:12:34,590 --> 00:12:33,189 well it's the the idea behind that the 259 00:12:36,109 --> 00:12:34,600 question for this is I I know a lot of 260 00:12:38,369 --> 00:12:36,119 people who may be new to the show or not 261 00:12:40,019 --> 00:12:38,379 and we have been getting a lot of new 262 00:12:41,729 --> 00:12:40,029 viewers and a lot of new listeners some 263 00:12:44,279 --> 00:12:41,739 are are familiar with the subject and 264 00:12:47,069 --> 00:12:44,289 others are interested in it but they may 265 00:12:48,929 --> 00:12:47,079 be getting their only taste of what 266 00:12:53,549 --> 00:12:48,939 alchemy is through let's say an anime 267 00:12:55,799 --> 00:12:53,559 like you know Full Metal Alchemist and 268 00:12:58,079 --> 00:12:55,809 the idea or at least the core ideas is 269 00:13:02,939 --> 00:12:58,089 the use of equivalent exchange in that 270 00:13:05,249 --> 00:13:02,949 particular cartoon or I should say you 271 00:13:09,659 --> 00:13:05,259 know that that particular anime mm-hm 272 00:13:11,159 --> 00:13:09,669 and hearing this is it can be somewhat 273 00:13:12,569 --> 00:13:11,169 shocking to certain individuals because 274 00:13:14,460 --> 00:13:12,579 of it because they are used to hearing 275 00:13:16,789 --> 00:13:14,470 those terms is the term equivalent 276 00:13:18,989 --> 00:13:16,799 exchange still used with an alchemy to 277 00:13:21,299 --> 00:13:18,999 at least have that understanding that 278 00:13:22,349 --> 00:13:21,309 there is supposed to be you know if you 279 00:13:24,029 --> 00:13:22,359 want something there's a trade-off that 280 00:13:26,009 --> 00:13:24,039 you need to be able to have for a price 281 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:26,019 that needs to be paid or some type of 282 00:13:31,619 --> 00:13:27,970 equivalent energy that needs to be put 283 00:13:32,879 --> 00:13:31,629 into it to result or to be able to 284 00:13:36,509 --> 00:13:32,889 attain the result that you're expecting 285 00:13:39,749 --> 00:13:36,519 is Connie I mean that's you know maybe 286 00:13:43,639 --> 00:13:39,759 that's an element that comes into play 287 00:13:47,009 --> 00:13:43,649 but I wouldn't call that its defining 288 00:13:48,649 --> 00:13:47,019 aspect or its kind of essential aspect 289 00:13:52,499 --> 00:13:48,659 in any way 290 00:13:57,299 --> 00:13:52,509 alchemy is more a it's kind of a 291 00:13:58,729 --> 00:13:57,309 universal science in a way a universal 292 00:14:03,119 --> 00:13:58,739 system of knowledge and understanding 293 00:14:05,429 --> 00:14:03,129 that can be applied to all domains so 294 00:14:08,009 --> 00:14:05,439 it's a science that tries to understand 295 00:14:10,859 --> 00:14:08,019 I guess the universal principles 296 00:14:13,340 --> 00:14:10,869 underpin any domain of knowledge or 297 00:14:15,689 --> 00:14:13,350 activity whether it's metaphysics or or 298 00:14:18,119 --> 00:14:15,699 metallurgy mm-hmm 299 00:14:22,139 --> 00:14:18,129 and everything in between so it's when 300 00:14:25,379 --> 00:14:22,149 you start looking at these different I 301 00:14:27,419 --> 00:14:25,389 guess domains of knowledge and you start 302 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:27,429 distilling the essential principles 303 00:14:34,079 --> 00:14:30,610 which seem to apply or remain constant 304 00:14:37,769 --> 00:14:34,089 across domains that to me is probably 305 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:37,779 the most useful starting point for 306 00:14:44,189 --> 00:14:39,730 understand what it the bigger picture of 307 00:14:47,340 --> 00:14:44,199 alchemy is really about and you know the 308 00:14:51,119 --> 00:14:47,350 more I've I mean the thing is alchemy 309 00:14:55,229 --> 00:14:51,129 comes down to us in the West from sort 310 00:14:57,059 --> 00:14:55,239 of Greek Greek and Egyptian sources but 311 00:14:59,100 --> 00:14:57,069 there are Alchemy's in the east as well 312 00:15:01,319 --> 00:14:59,110 we have like Chinese alchemical 313 00:15:06,259 --> 00:15:01,329 tradition which is arguably older than 314 00:15:12,329 --> 00:15:06,269 the the Western tradition and also 315 00:15:13,980 --> 00:15:12,339 indo-tibetan alchemical tradition so but 316 00:15:16,619 --> 00:15:13,990 what's interesting there maybe just to 317 00:15:21,019 --> 00:15:16,629 give some people a bit of a point of 318 00:15:26,369 --> 00:15:21,029 comparison is that alchemy tends to take 319 00:15:29,189 --> 00:15:26,379 its form in in China it takes its it 320 00:15:31,999 --> 00:15:29,199 unfolds within the context of Taoism so 321 00:15:36,119 --> 00:15:32,009 it's very it's very Taoist in the way it 322 00:15:40,590 --> 00:15:36,129 unfolds and expresses itself and in in 323 00:15:44,660 --> 00:15:40,600 Indo Tibetan tradition it it unfolds the 324 00:15:47,340 --> 00:15:44,670 context that unfolds in is is Tantra 325 00:15:49,379 --> 00:15:47,350 we're in both India and Tibet it says 326 00:15:52,259 --> 00:15:49,389 that it's a tantric it's an expression 327 00:15:54,929 --> 00:15:52,269 of the tantric tradition so and in the 328 00:15:57,150 --> 00:15:54,939 West that as I said before that the 329 00:15:58,909 --> 00:15:57,160 context in which alchemy unfolds that 330 00:16:03,509 --> 00:15:58,919 the overarching philosophy is 331 00:16:07,379 --> 00:16:03,519 Hermeticism so so and that's why it is 332 00:16:10,189 --> 00:16:07,389 you know at risk of generalizing too 333 00:16:12,739 --> 00:16:10,199 much you can sort of look at Hermeticism 334 00:16:16,159 --> 00:16:12,749 Taoism and Tantra is kind of three 335 00:16:20,909 --> 00:16:16,169 modalities that are very L chemical in 336 00:16:23,009 --> 00:16:20,919 their approach and what what I mean what 337 00:16:24,929 --> 00:16:23,019 I mean by that is a 338 00:16:28,439 --> 00:16:24,939 it's kind of a spiritual approach to 339 00:16:31,919 --> 00:16:28,449 reality where instead of trying to 340 00:16:33,899 --> 00:16:31,929 separate spirit from the impurities of 341 00:16:37,439 --> 00:16:33,909 the world and material existence they 342 00:16:41,399 --> 00:16:37,449 engage and transform reality at a very 343 00:16:43,799 --> 00:16:41,409 concrete a very visceral level so it's 344 00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:43,809 more metaphorical in nature then it's 345 00:16:48,419 --> 00:16:46,720 it's like instead of saying okay well 346 00:16:51,869 --> 00:16:48,429 I'm going to create this new element 347 00:16:55,139 --> 00:16:51,879 from a from another base element it you 348 00:16:58,679 --> 00:16:55,149 know there is an entire you know like 349 00:17:01,579 --> 00:16:58,689 there's a spiritual or more not going to 350 00:17:04,949 --> 00:17:01,589 say divine but otherworldly somehow 351 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:04,959 elements again whether it's implied or 352 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:06,490 not or whether it's just a matter of 353 00:17:13,529 --> 00:17:09,970 trying to veil something in in that term 354 00:17:17,669 --> 00:17:13,539 is that closer to it or am i way off no 355 00:17:21,059 --> 00:17:17,679 I think that's closer I think I I've 356 00:17:23,249 --> 00:17:21,069 made a lot of effort in my scholarly 357 00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:23,259 work and also just more generally or 358 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:27,370 personally to present alchemy as a non 359 00:17:33,289 --> 00:17:30,970 jewel tradition so it's and you know did 360 00:17:37,259 --> 00:17:33,299 you allottee is that it's dealing with 361 00:17:40,860 --> 00:17:37,269 spirit and matter you know it I guess in 362 00:17:44,519 --> 00:17:40,870 the most explicit sense and the tendency 363 00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:44,529 in among scholars as much as anyone else 364 00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:46,720 is to want to understand alchemy either 365 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:49,120 as a laboratory process something that 366 00:17:54,810 --> 00:17:51,730 can be reduced you know to chemical 367 00:17:57,769 --> 00:17:54,820 equations for instance altimeter to 368 00:18:00,480 --> 00:17:57,779 material processes or it's exclusively a 369 00:18:04,139 --> 00:18:00,490 psycho-spiritual process and it's would 370 00:18:08,850 --> 00:18:04,149 reduce fall ultimately to psychological 371 00:18:10,980 --> 00:18:08,860 realities and you know when I looked at 372 00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:10,990 when I when I look at those two extremes 373 00:18:16,499 --> 00:18:13,840 I think well they kind of both hold 374 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:16,509 water they both have some dubose 375 00:18:22,850 --> 00:18:19,090 undeniable in some sense and alchemy 376 00:18:25,889 --> 00:18:22,860 tends to embrace both of those extremes 377 00:18:29,090 --> 00:18:25,899 because it's because it's it's non jewel 378 00:18:31,490 --> 00:18:29,100 and what I mean by that it's not 379 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:31,500 means that it's a paradigm that 380 00:18:39,289 --> 00:18:34,770 encompasses dualities within a greater 381 00:18:41,419 --> 00:18:39,299 whole but it's not reducible to either 382 00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:41,429 of those dualities which I kind of you 383 00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:44,370 know compose it would you all to give me 384 00:18:49,970 --> 00:18:48,510 I were to say a very an example that 385 00:18:52,220 --> 00:18:49,980 people would be able to know from 386 00:18:54,020 --> 00:18:52,230 everyday life whether it's more of a 387 00:18:56,419 --> 00:18:54,030 metaphor or something that actually 388 00:18:59,240 --> 00:18:56,429 people experience every single day 389 00:19:02,230 --> 00:18:59,250 that will give them a really good I'm 390 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:02,240 gonna say feeling for it 391 00:19:08,650 --> 00:19:05,690 yeah um let's see 392 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:08,660 well what yeah at least one example of 393 00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:10,970 at least aside you know non-dualism 394 00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:14,720 non-dualism is a very difficult concept 395 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:17,510 to kind of come to grips with in general 396 00:19:24,460 --> 00:19:21,410 and one good example of that actually 397 00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:24,470 comes Swala talks about this actually is 398 00:19:29,820 --> 00:19:26,710 a defining experience he had when he was 399 00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:29,830 maybe 7 years old and he picked up a 400 00:19:37,090 --> 00:19:32,480 two-sided coin well yeah I pick up a 401 00:19:39,580 --> 00:19:37,100 coin and realized it's this object has 402 00:19:43,090 --> 00:19:39,590 two sides but it's it's it's one thing 403 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:43,100 and so it had this sort of Epiphany at 404 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:44,330 that moment when he realized that 405 00:19:50,490 --> 00:19:48,170 reality is is just like that it's got 406 00:19:55,900 --> 00:19:50,500 two sides or two natures but it is one 407 00:19:58,780 --> 00:19:55,910 phenomenon the explanation of Janus for 408 00:20:02,290 --> 00:19:58,790 instance would be who is the two-faced 409 00:20:05,380 --> 00:20:02,300 God you know the idea or the idea of a 410 00:20:06,730 --> 00:20:05,390 coin being another one so like the coin 411 00:20:09,220 --> 00:20:06,740 is the same thing but they always say 412 00:20:11,710 --> 00:20:09,230 the coin has two sides if you are so 413 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:11,720 that that's what I'm trying to think you 414 00:20:18,130 --> 00:20:15,530 know you've got your say the light side 415 00:20:20,980 --> 00:20:18,140 or your exoteric which everyone sees and 416 00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:20,990 the esoteric which is hidden or has to 417 00:20:26,110 --> 00:20:23,510 be discovered yes so that's exactly so 418 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:26,120 it's the two-sided coin the two sides in 419 00:20:30,820 --> 00:20:28,490 this equation are I guess seed the 420 00:20:33,250 --> 00:20:30,830 invisible or the metaphysical aspect of 421 00:20:35,950 --> 00:20:33,260 existence and the visible and or 422 00:20:37,930 --> 00:20:35,960 physical aspect of existence and they're 423 00:20:40,210 --> 00:20:37,940 both you know we tend to want to 424 00:20:44,590 --> 00:20:40,220 separate them into two halves that 425 00:20:48,510 --> 00:20:44,600 aren't connected or to you know assert 426 00:20:51,220 --> 00:20:48,520 one is more real than the other or but 427 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:51,230 this sort of automatic or alchemical 428 00:20:56,830 --> 00:20:53,330 reality or this doubt in a very a very 429 00:21:03,760 --> 00:20:56,840 dour City and yang you know these two 430 00:21:11,740 --> 00:21:06,780 unitary they're ultimately fundamentally 431 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:11,750 United and yeah and from this flows the 432 00:21:18,970 --> 00:21:14,450 core symbolism in alchemy is in Taoism 433 00:21:22,420 --> 00:21:18,980 and in Tantra day and night you know Sun 434 00:21:26,290 --> 00:21:22,430 and Moon masculine and feminine all 435 00:21:28,330 --> 00:21:26,300 these dualities unfold as a kind of a 436 00:21:31,620 --> 00:21:28,340 double expression of this one reality 437 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:31,630 form from which they all pour forth 438 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:35,810 before this that this reality is is 439 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:38,450 alchemy used for a practical purpose or 440 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:43,810 is it more towards a I'm gonna say 441 00:21:51,090 --> 00:21:46,010 theoretical like theoretical purpose in 442 00:22:00,430 --> 00:21:56,010 yeah it's ultimately philosophical I 443 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:00,440 think the even the laboratory worker you 444 00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:04,810 know in it if it's conceived properly 445 00:22:14,170 --> 00:22:09,440 it's the physical app and practical 446 00:22:20,620 --> 00:22:14,180 applications of alchemy demonstrations 447 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:20,630 of the philosophy so it's not and the 448 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:23,450 practical I guess there's a fact there 449 00:22:30,670 --> 00:22:25,250 are pragmatic elements to it definitely 450 00:22:33,550 --> 00:22:30,680 but I I tend to think that they did not 451 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:33,560 end in in and of themselves so for 452 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:36,290 instance in what's good about looking at 453 00:22:42,340 --> 00:22:38,930 the in indo-tibetan alchemical tradition 454 00:22:44,950 --> 00:22:42,350 is that it's still relatively intact in 455 00:22:46,780 --> 00:22:44,960 its original kind of context whereas the 456 00:22:49,990 --> 00:22:46,790 Western tradition is quite fragmented 457 00:22:52,660 --> 00:22:50,000 we've had the departs must be you know 458 00:22:55,060 --> 00:22:52,670 the alchemy has been separated from it 459 00:22:58,930 --> 00:22:55,070 astrology and from its theory in its 460 00:23:00,340 --> 00:22:58,940 magic and these things have come down to 461 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:00,350 us in their in their kind of separate 462 00:23:03,310 --> 00:23:02,570 forms and we we kind of have to piece 463 00:23:06,970 --> 00:23:03,320 them back together 464 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:06,980 whereas in certainly in Tibetan 465 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:12,250 tradition we've got the sense that the 466 00:23:16,259 --> 00:23:15,410 preparation Zomato making Alexes you 467 00:23:19,799 --> 00:23:16,269 know 468 00:23:23,699 --> 00:23:19,809 out of plants and minerals and metals 469 00:23:26,149 --> 00:23:23,709 and they would you know so you can make 470 00:23:32,489 --> 00:23:26,159 these Alexes that would apparently 471 00:23:34,139 --> 00:23:32,499 prolong your life or now you know that 472 00:23:38,190 --> 00:23:34,149 has you know if we can take that at face 473 00:23:44,879 --> 00:23:38,200 value as as a reality what that means is 474 00:23:47,639 --> 00:23:44,889 that that is very practical yeah but 475 00:23:49,619 --> 00:23:47,649 they weren't trying to alchemy wasn't 476 00:23:53,519 --> 00:23:49,629 about living longer in a physical body 477 00:23:55,759 --> 00:23:53,529 it was did you know in their Buddhist 478 00:23:59,159 --> 00:23:55,769 Tibetan Buddhist context it was very 479 00:24:04,199 --> 00:23:59,169 very clear that the the aim is 480 00:24:06,109 --> 00:24:04,209 ultimately the same is aim of of Tibetan 481 00:24:08,310 --> 00:24:06,119 Buddhism its liberation from samsara 482 00:24:10,919 --> 00:24:08,320 liberation from conditioned existence 483 00:24:12,959 --> 00:24:10,929 and you've got a you know in in the 484 00:24:14,909 --> 00:24:12,969 tantric tradition you you committed to 485 00:24:16,999 --> 00:24:14,919 doing that in this life rather than 486 00:24:19,709 --> 00:24:17,009 waiting you know rather rather than 487 00:24:21,329 --> 00:24:19,719 finding that perfection over multiple 488 00:24:21,989 --> 00:24:21,339 lifetimes you want to achieve it in one 489 00:24:26,069 --> 00:24:21,999 lifetime 490 00:24:29,339 --> 00:24:26,079 so you prolong your life with mineral 491 00:24:32,009 --> 00:24:29,349 botanical our Alexes in order to buy 492 00:24:35,579 --> 00:24:32,019 more time to achieve liberation in this 493 00:24:39,690 --> 00:24:35,589 life so in that sense it's practical yes 494 00:24:41,959 --> 00:24:39,700 but its ultimate purpose is about 495 00:24:44,549 --> 00:24:41,969 liberation from conditioned existence 496 00:24:47,609 --> 00:24:44,559 here's my rational mind kicking in again 497 00:24:49,199 --> 00:24:47,619 and usually I ask stupid but very 498 00:24:53,699 --> 00:24:49,209 insightful questions when I want to get 499 00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:53,709 this way if all right so let's say I'm a 500 00:25:00,029 --> 00:24:57,369 Tibetan monk and instead of living let's 501 00:25:01,889 --> 00:25:00,039 say the average age of a Tibetan monk 502 00:25:03,629 --> 00:25:01,899 could be like 85 well we'll just say 85 503 00:25:06,930 --> 00:25:03,639 years and let's say I'm taking all of 504 00:25:10,379 --> 00:25:06,940 these minerals and or you know tinctures 505 00:25:11,579 --> 00:25:10,389 - - except my life - 150 years let's see 506 00:25:13,619 --> 00:25:11,589 if that's that's actually possible or 507 00:25:16,529 --> 00:25:13,629 even harder than well we'll do 170 years 508 00:25:20,099 --> 00:25:16,539 justjust so it's a doubling and the 509 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:20,109 human body tends to get more frail 510 00:25:24,539 --> 00:25:22,450 infirm you know if you've ever seen 511 00:25:26,219 --> 00:25:24,549 anybody who's the oldest person on the 512 00:25:28,409 --> 00:25:26,229 planet they're like 120 years old and 513 00:25:29,070 --> 00:25:28,419 they can't usually get around very well 514 00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:29,080 it's 515 00:25:38,820 --> 00:25:36,640 know the the greatest existence 516 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:38,830 you're basically defendable in a in a 517 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:42,490 you know doing whatever now if you do it 518 00:25:46,350 --> 00:25:44,050 in two lifetimes let's say if you know 519 00:25:49,260 --> 00:25:46,360 you die at 85 and you're reborn as 520 00:25:51,420 --> 00:25:49,270 something else can't you just you know 521 00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:51,430 isn't it better to start from the 522 00:25:55,620 --> 00:25:53,130 beginning and then work your way forward 523 00:25:59,700 --> 00:25:55,630 while you still actually can actually 524 00:26:01,650 --> 00:25:59,710 work your way forward physically that's 525 00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:01,660 no that's what happens and it seems 526 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:04,960 happening you know anyway but we don't 527 00:26:13,230 --> 00:26:08,170 have much control over the conditions of 528 00:26:18,510 --> 00:26:13,240 our next incarnation not not directly 529 00:26:20,850 --> 00:26:18,520 anyway and yeah you're right that yeah I 530 00:26:25,590 --> 00:26:20,860 say we extend life to to that that 531 00:26:29,730 --> 00:26:25,600 degree the quality of existence is not 532 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:29,740 going to be that that great but the 533 00:26:34,980 --> 00:26:32,170 context the other the other half of that 534 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:34,990 sort of practice was there were would 535 00:26:39,690 --> 00:26:37,570 have you know what would have had more 536 00:26:41,490 --> 00:26:39,700 yogic like practices and also the 537 00:26:44,460 --> 00:26:41,500 cultivation of the subtle body the 538 00:26:47,420 --> 00:26:44,470 internal the meridians and so one of the 539 00:26:53,060 --> 00:26:47,430 Alex's weren't just about creating a 540 00:26:59,040 --> 00:26:53,070 better a better physical longevity but 541 00:27:05,180 --> 00:26:59,050 also purifying and trying and really 542 00:27:08,490 --> 00:27:05,190 consolidating the the the internal 543 00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:08,500 meridians and the de subtle body because 544 00:27:16,260 --> 00:27:10,720 the the core of the alchemical process 545 00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:16,270 the was it was about creating an Alexa 546 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:21,910 was in so using the aspects of your your 547 00:27:31,670 --> 00:27:27,850 subtle body to generate what in China 548 00:27:36,300 --> 00:27:31,680 they call it the golden elixir which was 549 00:27:38,250 --> 00:27:36,310 essentially the same as they call it the 550 00:27:41,070 --> 00:27:38,260 golden embryo so it was like giving 551 00:27:43,020 --> 00:27:41,080 birth to your Buddha nature within your 552 00:27:46,610 --> 00:27:43,030 own body or being 553 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:46,620 so yeah the process was always parallel 554 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:51,730 with internal cultivation okay so it's 555 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:55,810 um the elixir can also be or the 556 00:27:59,970 --> 00:27:57,570 tincture I should say it can also be 557 00:28:02,220 --> 00:27:59,980 salt like for self improvement or being 558 00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:02,230 able to let's say you know untapped 559 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:03,910 parts you remind for perception that can 560 00:28:10,380 --> 00:28:05,770 get you further understanding of the 561 00:28:13,860 --> 00:28:10,390 world around you etc etc um yeah you 562 00:28:14,970 --> 00:28:13,870 know it's really it's and this is just 563 00:28:17,130 --> 00:28:14,980 gets back to what I was saying before 564 00:28:20,010 --> 00:28:17,140 about this sort of universal science or 565 00:28:22,140 --> 00:28:20,020 understanding these constants in the 566 00:28:25,140 --> 00:28:22,150 laws of reality that apply not just in 567 00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:25,150 the material domain but you know in all 568 00:28:29,910 --> 00:28:28,510 domains that is really you know the more 569 00:28:31,740 --> 00:28:29,920 we understand knows the more we are 570 00:28:34,650 --> 00:28:31,750 having a better understanding of reality 571 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:34,660 as a whole rather than just in a partial 572 00:28:42,300 --> 00:28:39,730 in a physical materialistic sense okay 573 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:42,310 and for hermeticism you said that 574 00:28:48,270 --> 00:28:46,210 hermeticism has a relation to alchemy in 575 00:28:51,420 --> 00:28:48,280 that they can kind of be considered one 576 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:51,430 of the same but I know that it's a lot 577 00:28:57,570 --> 00:28:53,530 more nuanced than that which is what I 578 00:29:02,700 --> 00:28:57,580 love about this subject matter if for 579 00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:02,710 for hermeticism what exactly is it okay 580 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:06,880 I mean hermeticism the sciences that are 581 00:29:15,180 --> 00:29:09,490 attributed to to Hermes the Greek god 582 00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:15,190 who was equated with the Thoth of the 583 00:29:21,900 --> 00:29:20,320 Egyptians it's the Roman mercurius so 584 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:21,910 that this is the divinity that gives a 585 00:29:30,270 --> 00:29:27,850 name to Hermeticism and his nature is is 586 00:29:34,270 --> 00:29:30,280 relevant to understanding what what it's 587 00:29:36,190 --> 00:29:34,280 all about because he was always a 588 00:29:38,580 --> 00:29:36,200 here's here's a bit of a trickster he 589 00:29:42,850 --> 00:29:38,590 was always a god in betwixt in between 590 00:29:45,669 --> 00:29:42,860 and so he straddles those polarities or 591 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:45,679 those dualities which we normally try to 592 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:48,530 divide the world into so in that sense 593 00:30:00,340 --> 00:29:56,560 spiritual and material Hermes is always 594 00:30:03,250 --> 00:30:00,350 the God that mediates between he 595 00:30:07,149 --> 00:30:03,260 straddles those boundaries and is very 596 00:30:08,380 --> 00:30:07,159 fluid like the metallic mercury is food 597 00:30:11,169 --> 00:30:08,390 you know liquid at room temperature so 598 00:30:15,789 --> 00:30:11,179 he said as this fluid nature where he 599 00:30:18,460 --> 00:30:15,799 can move between those polarities that 600 00:30:19,180 --> 00:30:18,470 that really constellated existence as we 601 00:30:23,250 --> 00:30:19,190 know it 602 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:23,260 so he's and he's a communicator he he 603 00:30:27,340 --> 00:30:25,250 straddles he moves between but also 604 00:30:28,870 --> 00:30:27,350 translates between realms and then you 605 00:30:32,529 --> 00:30:28,880 had this has to also be understand as 606 00:30:35,590 --> 00:30:32,539 understood as above and below you know 607 00:30:39,100 --> 00:30:35,600 the the metaphysical and the physical or 608 00:30:45,159 --> 00:30:39,110 you know or or the esoteric and exoteric 609 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:45,169 the the the outer and the inner so he he 610 00:30:49,270 --> 00:30:47,330 or he he blurs the boundaries that keep 611 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:49,280 I want to keep these different aspects 612 00:30:55,289 --> 00:30:51,650 of reality separate I've also heard he's 613 00:30:57,549 --> 00:30:55,299 quite a thrice great guy yeah yeah 614 00:31:01,659 --> 00:30:57,559 that's that's my one bad joke for the 615 00:31:02,529 --> 00:31:01,669 night people take it now I know that 616 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:02,539 we're also gonna be talking about 617 00:31:09,789 --> 00:31:07,010 smaller and gebser on the the second 618 00:31:12,100 --> 00:31:09,799 part of the broadcast can you give an 619 00:31:13,779 --> 00:31:12,110 idea of what's like you know we we've 620 00:31:16,570 --> 00:31:13,789 all heard the name swaller before 621 00:31:18,490 --> 00:31:16,580 gibster is kind of a new one right 622 00:31:22,419 --> 00:31:18,500 no schwa was usually associated with 623 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:22,429 John Anthony West but he's more than 624 00:31:28,690 --> 00:31:25,610 just the guy who wrote you know temple 625 00:31:30,370 --> 00:31:28,700 of man this what what are you what is 626 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:30,380 your knowledge or knowledge basis on on 627 00:31:40,510 --> 00:31:35,450 him and his works swallow you mean write 628 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:40,520 what father is I think the best 629 00:31:46,110 --> 00:31:43,010 description for him is a he's a hermetic 630 00:31:48,010 --> 00:31:46,120 philosopher so he's a philosopher you 631 00:31:50,380 --> 00:31:48,020 know one of the 632 00:31:53,950 --> 00:31:50,390 one of the greatest modern hermetic 633 00:31:57,850 --> 00:31:53,960 philosophers and his whole really the 634 00:32:00,640 --> 00:31:57,860 whole point of him going to Egypt I mean 635 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:00,650 as most of us know swallow went to Egypt 636 00:32:07,990 --> 00:32:05,930 in the nineteen it was in 1936 I think 637 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:08,000 and he lived there for about fifteen 638 00:32:18,370 --> 00:32:14,680 researching look sir and so on and so 639 00:32:21,490 --> 00:32:18,380 forth on site very rigorously and as 640 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:21,500 that work came came that looks like a 641 00:32:27,610 --> 00:32:24,970 temple of man and so on and so forth but 642 00:32:29,140 --> 00:32:27,620 to understand you know we need to 643 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:29,150 understand before before that swallow 644 00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:33,410 was involved with figures like in France 645 00:32:39,150 --> 00:32:35,120 and Paris he was involved with figures 646 00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:42,310 Alchemist a practicing Alchemist who 647 00:32:47,290 --> 00:32:44,510 wrote a couple of books that have been 648 00:32:50,860 --> 00:32:47,300 extremely influential on on modern 649 00:32:52,870 --> 00:32:50,870 alchemists and swalla had vocally is a 650 00:32:54,850 --> 00:32:52,880 bit of a mystery figure and but we do 651 00:33:00,520 --> 00:32:54,860 know he was connected with with swallow 652 00:33:03,190 --> 00:33:00,530 then and swallow was involved with this 653 00:33:06,060 --> 00:33:03,200 kind of alchemical laboratory alchemical 654 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:06,070 work but he was also operating within a 655 00:33:19,300 --> 00:33:13,490 more metaphysical paradigm and the thing 656 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:19,310 is what what led him to Egypt was really 657 00:33:22,690 --> 00:33:20,210 pursuing 658 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:22,700 following the his tracing the roots of 659 00:33:26,020 --> 00:33:24,530 the Hermetic tradition because the 660 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:26,030 Hermetic tradition has always said to go 661 00:33:30,540 --> 00:33:28,130 back to egypt have its roots in egypt 662 00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:30,550 and although it comes down to us through 663 00:33:37,330 --> 00:33:35,510 greco-roman and and through true Islam 664 00:33:42,790 --> 00:33:37,340 and Byzantium it comes come to the West 665 00:33:45,220 --> 00:33:42,800 but its roots are always considered to 666 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:45,230 be Egyptian from the Egyptian wisdom 667 00:33:53,110 --> 00:33:50,330 traditions and so schwarz whole desire 668 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:53,120 to go to Egypt and really get to the 669 00:33:59,269 --> 00:33:57,330 bottom of Egyptian wisdom traditions 670 00:34:01,279 --> 00:33:59,279 it's really an expression of his 671 00:34:03,769 --> 00:34:01,289 vocation as a hermetic philosopher and 672 00:34:05,599 --> 00:34:03,779 trying to get to the you know to take 673 00:34:09,529 --> 00:34:05,609 that Homeric tradition back to its 674 00:34:13,129 --> 00:34:09,539 original roots so you could say that he 675 00:34:17,029 --> 00:34:13,139 was he was kind of like the our 676 00:34:19,279 --> 00:34:17,039 generation of alchemical traditions 677 00:34:21,649 --> 00:34:19,289 hipster to a certain extent you know he 678 00:34:26,539 --> 00:34:21,659 was the the he was taller before swaller 679 00:34:28,279 --> 00:34:26,549 was cool right forget sir that that's a 680 00:34:30,710 --> 00:34:28,289 relatively new name for me light I 681 00:34:34,339 --> 00:34:30,720 should say in terms of being able to 682 00:34:36,049 --> 00:34:34,349 research him he's more of a philosopher 683 00:34:37,460 --> 00:34:36,059 though not necessarily you know 684 00:34:44,299 --> 00:34:37,470 considered more of an alchemist which 685 00:34:47,359 --> 00:34:44,309 swaller was oh yeah yeah is a German a 686 00:34:50,659 --> 00:34:47,369 German poet and philosopher and he's not 687 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:50,669 very well known even in even in Germany 688 00:34:58,640 --> 00:34:56,490 now he but the thing is what what got me 689 00:35:02,120 --> 00:34:58,650 I started exploring shuang'er and Gibson 690 00:35:05,809 --> 00:35:02,130 around the same time because the works 691 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:05,819 had been on my horizon and I started 692 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:07,770 digging deeper into them around when I 693 00:35:16,220 --> 00:35:13,650 started my PhD thesis and what I was 694 00:35:22,339 --> 00:35:16,230 interested the kind of issues I was 695 00:35:23,690 --> 00:35:22,349 interested in was more about well 696 00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:23,700 ultimately about more about 697 00:35:28,819 --> 00:35:26,000 consciousness and the role of 698 00:35:32,359 --> 00:35:28,829 consciousness in the understanding of 699 00:35:35,539 --> 00:35:32,369 reality and Swala very much speaks to 700 00:35:38,660 --> 00:35:35,549 this and gebser was speaking to this 701 00:35:39,559 --> 00:35:38,670 precise point as well in similar but 702 00:35:42,980 --> 00:35:39,569 different ways 703 00:35:43,970 --> 00:35:42,990 and although his capture is not an 704 00:35:47,630 --> 00:35:43,980 esotericist 705 00:35:49,519 --> 00:35:47,640 at all I mean he touches on a few 706 00:35:55,870 --> 00:35:49,529 esoteric thinkers but generally speaking 707 00:36:00,319 --> 00:35:55,880 he he he draws more on philosophers 708 00:36:03,740 --> 00:36:00,329 artists scientists poets and just the 709 00:36:08,210 --> 00:36:03,750 data of human culture and civilization 710 00:36:10,940 --> 00:36:08,220 which he sees as a an index or a pointer 711 00:36:14,780 --> 00:36:10,950 of a visit 712 00:36:16,819 --> 00:36:14,790 kind of indicator of what what the 713 00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:16,829 transformations of consciousness so he 714 00:36:24,230 --> 00:36:21,049 sort of saw civilization and culture as 715 00:36:26,900 --> 00:36:24,240 the visible part that tells you what's 716 00:36:29,030 --> 00:36:26,910 going on with with consciousness on a 717 00:36:30,859 --> 00:36:29,040 deeper level and the Great's of the 718 00:36:35,809 --> 00:36:30,869 great shifts and civilization that we 719 00:36:42,740 --> 00:36:35,819 can see over over grand swaths of 720 00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:42,750 history really just divisible parts of 721 00:36:48,859 --> 00:36:47,250 grand shift and consciousness now we're 722 00:36:53,210 --> 00:36:48,869 coming next to they're down at the end 723 00:36:54,980 --> 00:36:53,220 of our first segment here what what are 724 00:36:56,930 --> 00:36:54,990 you most excited about the possibility 725 00:36:58,670 --> 00:36:56,940 of talking about in in the upcoming 726 00:37:01,849 --> 00:36:58,680 segment well what do you really want to 727 00:37:04,220 --> 00:37:01,859 go in depth on what's what's the frame 728 00:37:05,359 --> 00:37:04,230 of the segment next segment pretty much 729 00:37:06,620 --> 00:37:05,369 exactly what we're talking now we're 730 00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:06,630 just gonna go and you know we're just 731 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:08,400 gonna go really in depth and really dive 732 00:37:12,799 --> 00:37:10,410 deep on these subjects maybe even see 733 00:37:17,030 --> 00:37:12,809 how they're all connected I'm just going 734 00:37:19,370 --> 00:37:17,040 to you know let you go I'm let you go 735 00:37:21,140 --> 00:37:19,380 and start picking your brain and try and 736 00:37:24,010 --> 00:37:21,150 see how deep the rabbit-hole goes as it 737 00:37:27,289 --> 00:37:24,020 goes right yeah I mean one thing I find 738 00:37:30,289 --> 00:37:27,299 quite exciting or at least MIT the more 739 00:37:33,530 --> 00:37:30,299 unifying aspects of looking at figures 740 00:37:36,859 --> 00:37:33,540 like Schuyler and Gibbs are is how they 741 00:37:38,359 --> 00:37:36,869 understand reality in an unduly going 742 00:37:42,710 --> 00:37:38,369 beyond the dualities of spirit and 743 00:37:46,370 --> 00:37:42,720 matter and so on and so forth and 744 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:46,380 getting to yeah what is the nature of 745 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:49,490 consciousness and how does that shape 746 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:52,650 reality is you know the very mean and 747 00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:55,170 how the very way we understand or 748 00:37:59,510 --> 00:37:56,880 approach reality is based on our 749 00:38:03,680 --> 00:37:59,520 consciousness so you know you understand 750 00:38:06,020 --> 00:38:03,690 that then everything else flows from 751 00:38:06,590 --> 00:38:06,030 that I think we're gonna have a really 752 00:38:08,990 --> 00:38:06,600 good talk 753 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:09,000 [Laughter] 754 00:38:12,620 --> 00:38:10,890 it seems you and I are at least relying 755 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:12,630 on on the understanding that it's more 756 00:38:18,770 --> 00:38:14,130 than just duality I came to that 757 00:38:20,299 --> 00:38:18,780 conclusion myself a while back so I'm 758 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:20,309 going to at least encourage everyone 759 00:38:23,730 --> 00:38:22,530 who's out there right now if you have 760 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:23,740 not 761 00:38:36,180 --> 00:38:32,700 patreon.com/scishow and then we can go 762 00:38:37,830 --> 00:38:36,190 in depth with the man himself and we 763 00:38:39,570 --> 00:38:37,840 will you'll be able to join us for this 764 00:38:42,830 --> 00:38:39,580 for this topic I hope you can all join 765 00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:42,840 us if you've got to go stack wood as 766 00:38:47,940 --> 00:38:46,000 lunar sparkles one stated that she has 767 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:47,950 to do and I'm so sorry that you have to 768 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:51,010 deal with that but you know we'll we'll 769 00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:52,810 get to that give give me a couple 770 00:38:57,300 --> 00:38:54,910 minutes guys just to work out some some 771 00:39:01,830 --> 00:38:57,310 final kinks just to let you know we 772 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:01,840 haven't you discord channel which for 773 00:39:05,490 --> 00:39:03,610 the master class if you go to patreon 774 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:05,500 the link is actually there so you'll be 775 00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:07,210 able to interact with us via voice as 776 00:39:12,420 --> 00:39:10,960 well as via text and it it's it's new 777 00:39:15,210 --> 00:39:12,430 Braham thank you very much for 778 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:15,220 suggesting it's or darn you for 779 00:39:17,910 --> 00:39:16,450 suggesting it because i think it may 780 00:39:20,490 --> 00:39:17,920 actually be a lot of trouble we'll see 781 00:39:24,810 --> 00:39:20,500 we're gonna go from there as its den 782 00:39:26,490 --> 00:39:24,820 floor patreon for dental patreon.com 783 00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:26,500 forward slash denna floor the link is 784 00:39:29,730 --> 00:39:28,510 let's see which way i should my videos 785 00:39:31,740 --> 00:39:29,740 screen here it's a bit a little bit 786 00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:31,750 delayed though that there we go it's 787 00:39:37,050 --> 00:39:34,510 that way so it's it's right underneath 788 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:37,060 the beautiful man aaron himself and 789 00:39:42,180 --> 00:39:40,090 again if you want to go check out rabito 790 00:39:46,190 --> 00:39:42,190 press the links for that are in the show 791 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:46,200 notes in addition to Aaron's main main 792 00:39:52,349 --> 00:39:49,330 his personal website very well designed 793 00:39:54,260 --> 00:39:52,359 so from a web designer trust me that's a 794 00:39:56,849 --> 00:39:54,270 good thing if I'm impressed that's 795 00:39:58,440 --> 00:39:56,859 usually means is well designed so you'll 796 00:40:01,950 --> 00:39:58,450 enjoy it and he has a bunch of classes 797 00:40:03,810 --> 00:40:01,960 on there tons of content and lessons go 798 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:03,820 check it out if you really want to delve 799 00:40:07,250 --> 00:40:05,530 into this subject I really strongly 800 00:40:09,180 --> 00:40:07,260 recommend you do it because you're 801 00:40:11,550 --> 00:40:09,190 you're you're talking to one of the guys 802 00:40:14,849 --> 00:40:11,560 who's the best of what he does which is 803 00:40:18,410 --> 00:40:14,859 this so come come join us in the patreon 804 00:40:24,430 --> 00:40:18,420 and let me play the outro music here 805 00:40:27,450 --> 00:40:25,690 you know a place scattered knowledge 806 00:40:32,470 --> 00:40:27,460 because this is a really knowledge one 807 00:40:33,990 --> 00:40:32,480 all right all right gents ladies and 808 00:40:36,570 --> 00:40:34,000 gents 809 00:40:47,670 --> 00:40:36,580 what about five 810 00:40:55,230 --> 00:40:51,990 ah gotta love that 811 00:40:55,650 --> 00:40:55,240 OBS decided to freeze on me sorry about 812 00:40:58,680 --> 00:40:55,660 that 813 00:41:00,570 --> 00:40:58,690 alright ladies and gents give you about 814 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:00,580 five minutes see it for all those who 815 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:02,410 are patron masters you can go into the 816 00:41:06,510 --> 00:41:05,170 chat room right now and you know whether 817 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:06,520 it's discord or whether it's the YouTube 818 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:09,370 chat it's up and running and I just get 819 00:41:15,140 --> 00:41:13,090 the stream working so yeah thank you all 820 00:41:17,900 --> 00:41:15,150 for who ever joined us for this one and 821 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:17,910 for those of you who aren't master 822 00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:20,770 patreon masters we do have another show 823 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:23,710 coming up later on tonight with Greg 824 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:25,330 Stewart also known as the Masonic 825 00:41:29,250 --> 00:41:27,850 traveler and so we're gonna be probably 826 00:41:30,750 --> 00:41:29,260 touching on some of the subjects we're 827 00:41:34,690 --> 00:41:30,760 gonna be talking about in the chatroom